USMC and SOCOM seeking lightweight Ma Deuce replacement

by mcassill, Thursday, May 18, 2017, 09:58 (572 days ago)

It appears DOD is getting ready to spend a big pile of $$ on small arms in the next few years. In recent weeks we've seen the Army and USMC announce studies of a new service round, and a USMC solicitation for a new rifle design to fire it. The Marines have also been buying a sizable number of M27s as what appears to be a partial stopgap replacement for the M4 in Marine infantry units. Now comes word that USMC and SOCOM are seeking a belt-fed .338 magnum weighing under 24 pounds and capable of engaging point targets at ranges past 2000 meters. It will be interesting to see the finished product on that one!

You had me at:

by Hoot @, Diversityville, Liberal-sota, Thursday, May 18, 2017, 10:22 (572 days ago) @ mcassill

"belt-fed .338 magnum" That just sounds like too much fun!

I have to agree.....

by Otony, Thursday, May 18, 2017, 21:16 (572 days ago) @ Hoot

The thought of a belt-fed .338 belted magnum makes my heart race!


links preclude the use of a belted case nm.

by ERSisk @, Thursday, May 18, 2017, 21:38 (572 days ago) @ Otony


Okay, nix the belt, but you have to admit....

by Otony, Thursday, May 18, 2017, 22:34 (572 days ago) @ ERSisk

....a belt fed .338 magnum sounds interesting.....


what's the problem with the belt?

by bj @, Thursday, May 18, 2017, 23:45 (572 days ago) @ ERSisk

(of course they could manufacture the cases without the belt)

.338 Lapua isn't belted :). NM

by mcassill, Friday, May 19, 2017, 04:48 (571 days ago) @ bj


And getting belted cases to de-link would prove problematic.

by cas, Friday, May 19, 2017, 16:37 (571 days ago) @ mcassill

Maybe with cloth belts. :)

Im not following the problem with metal links either.

by John K., Friday, May 19, 2017, 19:54 (571 days ago) @ cas

Perhaps M60 type links or other push-through, but 1919 metal links work like cloth belts - pull-out to the rear.

On the other hand, a belted cartridge seems kinda useless unless it simplifies headspace on the MG design?


by Jared, Saturday, May 20, 2017, 08:50 (570 days ago) @ John K.

I wonder if having a slight body taper wouldn't help with reliability on removing them from the links and on feeding.

Russians use 7.62x54R with metal links just fine

by mcassill, Saturday, May 20, 2017, 11:48 (570 days ago) @ John K.

In this case, the availability of a couple of different non-belted .338 mags simplifies things

I'm thinking more a 3 barrel .35 Magnum minigun. nm

by ERSisk @, Thursday, May 18, 2017, 22:18 (572 days ago) @ Hoot


You able to build that light enough...

by mcassill, Friday, May 19, 2017, 13:26 (571 days ago) @ ERSisk

For one guy to carry? Up a mountain in Afghanistan?

Long extention cord.

by cas, Friday, May 19, 2017, 16:38 (571 days ago) @ mcassill

Solar powered?

There upper limit was 25 pounds. I'm assuming weapon wt.

by ERSisk @, Friday, May 19, 2017, 19:59 (571 days ago) @ mcassill

Titanium, Carbon fiber barrels. carbon fiber reinforced polymer, ceramics, niobium magnet brushless motor, Solar rechargeable 24v Lithium battery pack, 25 pounds easy peasy. The beast would be a hungry critter though, ammo @30% lighter than 50bmg, but a Cyclic rate 2 to 3 times that of a Ma Deuce. Possibly a multi position switch or variable drive speed. Long .35 caliber ELD bullets would be more effective than any .338 at 2000 yards. :hubbahubba: :usa: Could probably, design tool up, and produce a 1000 units for half the money Uncle Suger is going to spend thinking about what to do.

Problem is recoil

by CJM @, Monday, May 22, 2017, 01:19 (569 days ago) @ ERSisk

in a single shot rifle the shooter has time to get the rifle back in position before shooting it again. In a full-auto running 450 rounds per minute a 25 lb rifle is totally uncontrollable unless solidly mounted to a vehicle or fixed mount of some kind. A bipod or tripod just isn't enough. They have tried several times since the Vietnam war, hydraulic recoil cylinders, pneumatic systems, mechanical springs, none have ever proved to be able to tame the recoil and let the gunner keep on target.

As it turns out, General Dynamics has already built one

by mcassill, Saturday, May 20, 2017, 11:49 (570 days ago) @ Hoot

Anyone whohas stood behind one knows there is no replacement

by ERSisk @, Thursday, May 18, 2017, 21:33 (572 days ago) @ mcassill

for perfection. They may after spending a great big pile of our money find a decent supplement. There is absolutely no replacement for Ma Deuce.

Anyone whohas stood behind one knows there is no replacement

by bob, Thursday, May 18, 2017, 22:12 (572 days ago) @ ERSisk



The one big problem with the M2:

by mcassill, Friday, May 19, 2017, 04:47 (571 days ago) @ ERSisk

It's not "man portable" in any realistic sense of the term. You can pack one from arms room or CHU to vehicle, but that's about it. What SOCOM and the Marines seek is something that can be used by dismounted forces.

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